When talking to Christians about homosexuality, I almost always hear one of three things from the person:
1) I have no problem with homosexuality, either because
a) I don't believe Jesus/The Bible condemns homosexuality
b) I don't agree with the part of The Bible that condemns homosexuality.
Aside from personal issues with internal consistency of one's theology or with cherry-picking the parts of your religion you wish to follow, these people and I tend to get along just fine on this subject.
2) The Bible condemns homosexuality, and we shouldn't accept it or the people who practice this "choice."
If you didn't guess by the fact that my name is "GodlessLiberal", you know that these people and I are like oil and water... really, really bigoted oil and incredibly handsome water (I'm the water, just so you know).
3) Homosexuality is a sin, so I disapprove of it. But, as a Christian, I am called to hate the sin but love the sinner. So I am tolerant of their lifestyle choice.
Type three here is what I wanted to address. On the surface, it seems like they've come to reconcile with two things that most people observe as completely obvious: The Bible condemns homosexuality (Leviticus 18:22, 20:13; Romans 1:26-27) and that there are a lot of homosexual people in the world. Instead of giving up or bastardizing their faith, they've kept it intact. And they decided to eschew spending their life full of unmitigated bigotry and hate like Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church of "God Hates Fags" fame.
Side note: this is child abuse, right?
So at face value, this seems like a decent position to take. The comparison I often hear being made is that we can love someone who happens to have stolen something, but not condone their act of thievery. The problem is, the thief makes a conscious decision to steal something. A homosexual person doesn't make a conscious choice to be attracted to people of the same sex. Sure, you could argue that they do make a conscious choice to act upon that attraction, but imagine if you were told that heterosexual couples were forbidden by your religion... would you be able to curb all your sinful heterosexual desires? Would you allow your society and your religion to tell you that the way you feel itself is a sin?
Of course, some people believe that being gay
is a choice. If you think that being gay is a choice, I challenge you to force yourself to become gay. Can you do it? Hell, why would you want to, considering how gays are treated in our society? It seems about as sound of a choice as choosing to be dark-skinned in 1950s Alabama.
Consider this scenario the next time you feel like telling somebody that you "hate the sin but love the sinner." You're telling this person that every romantic feeling they've felt in their life is a sin. Imagine if someone were telling you this very same thing about your heterosexual feelings that you have no control over.
Comments (70)
Side note: That has GOT to be child abuse...
Because it feels better.
I will have to come back to this :)
Lesbians are hot. Plain and simple. I am talking about the real hot ones with great bodies.
Now the butch looking ones with short hair. That is a sin.
@AffinityInUnderstanding Agreed.
But this is a red herring. When Christians say love the sinner but hate the sin, they mean homosexuality as in homosexual acts. Being attracted to the same sex is not the problem here.
I don't believe in this because it weakens society and leads to our enslavement. We end up fighting each other over sexuality and sexuality becomes "free" when it shouldn't be as you have to force people into relationships in a timely manner to keep caste integrity, or in our case, to keep us free. This will lead to us being enslaved. Don't think they're going to allow it forever.
I agree with you, although I'm not sure what Jesus was doing during the "lost years." He may have been experimenting with Earthly things... all I'm saying, he did seem to have a certain affinity for Matthew, Mark, Luke, AND John.
Hmm, it also explains why Judas Iscariot turned him in... he couldn't get any of that sweet, sweet loving.
@AffinityInUnderstanding - I don't think it's child abuse. I was attracted to my BF girl in HS. I think they're natural urges. Some people just act on them. In my opinion, it hurts society. In order to construct society, you have to do this or that to keep it stable. Different societies have different ways of balancing and I can't help but think that they're trying to use it for some wicked will.
It depends on how you define a homosexual. What I mean by that is, I have no doubt that the desire is there; derp derp. However, self-control is a fruit of the spirit and we are taught REPEATEDLY by the scriptures and by Christ himself that we are to no longer be slaves to our sin and to stop acting on ungodly desires. I never see the Bible condemning the desire alone, but the action. You may not consciously choose to be physically attracted to someone, but you choose who you have sex with and how you identify yourself.
Sexuality is not a matter of orientation, but obedience.
:)
This could have already been said in the comments, but why would homosexuals actively want to be homosexual if they're ridiculed all the time (I'm saying this in a liberal context, not a conservative). I mean, they're not just doing it just to do it, like hipsters do things just to say they're doing them to be cool.
I mean, really. If a dude was just pretending to be gay or choosing to be gay and then get horribly made fun of for it, then why would he continue to "choose" that particular lifestyle? Do Christians really think that someone would "choose" to be ridiculed?
Being homosexual is a real thing and it shouldn't be judged upon just because a book that just so happened to be written by guys who hear voices in their heads told them to write it down.
Some people do consider heterosexual feelings a sin if they occur outside of wedlock. It's based on the idea that thinking about sex is the same as having sex. Which means that most guys are sinning every 3.5 seconds.
@BlindSight22 - The "lost years" are covered by Christopher Moore in the book Lamb... hilarious novel, you should check it out, it's one of my all-time favs.
@EpsilonCassiopeiae - Yeah, I mentioned in the post that it's akin to choosing to be dark-skinned in 1950s Alabama.
@apb102088 - Yes, but heterosexuals get to indulge in their urges with God's blessing. So are you saying God created homosexuals defective or something, just to make it that much harder on them?
P.S. Not a choice, love. :)
I am not homosexual but I'm bisexual, by choice. I could have stayed with guys but I "gave in to the temptation" to also be with girls. I love it and I'm not ashamed. t's my
choice. Comdem me and you shall be comdemmed. Non of you are my judge, okay? I'm a proud girl, free in spirit. Sinfull? Maybe, maybe not? I'd say "not" and take my chances. It doesn't make any sense to me to think of it as a "sin". You are free to disagree. Halelujah, whatever. I also happen to believe in God, by choice but that's another story. :)
This is one of my problems with religion. It teaches you to hate yourself for being human.
I wouldn't use the phrase. But, as others have said, it is the action that is the sin. I'll compare it to theft, as you did. Seeing something and the thought that you could steal it isn't a sin (assuming you don't go into covetousness here), dwelling on it, or committing the act, are sinful and to be condemned. We can't necessarily stop our temptation to steal at times, but we certainly don't have to give into the temptation and steal from someone. Same thing applies to same sex attraction and committing the related actions.
It's a great point you're making here.
http://www.gaychurch.org/Find_a_Church/united_states/united_states.htm
How about you ask them if it's a sin?
I don't understand the logic behind that question. Committing murder is a choice but I'm not going to force myself to become a murderer. Just because I can't do it doesn't mean it's not a choice.
Consider this scenario the next time you feel like telling somebody that you "hate the sin but love the sinner." You're telling this person that every romantic feeling they've felt in their life is a sin. Imagine if someone were telling you this very same thing about your heterosexual feelings that you have no control over.
If you're a believer that the bible is God's word, that is moot. The bottom line for a believer is that God proclaims it's a sin. You're telling us that we shouldn't believe in the bible. It's not going to work.
in high school, a friend of mine came out to her mom & her mom used that exact phrase, "hate the sin, love the sinner." I remember my friend anguishing, "Why do I have to be a sinner to her? Why can't I just be the same as I always have been, her daughter?" I think phrases like that are such a double-edged sword.
To address the question of choice: A person does not choose who they are attracted to. However, a person DOES choose what they do about that attraction. THAT is the choice.
thank you for your blog. i do hope people wake up to the fact that it's better to try to live in peace with everyone than to try to find flaws and condemn them for their so-called-flaws, just because they don't have the same believe as yours. i have also read here on xanga sometime ago, can't remember when or whom wrote the blog, where the blogger mentioned how we all are humans and that all humans are created by god. and if god really doesn't approve of homosexuals, then why would he create so many of them. such question is a great way to challenge those who are close minded. i am glad to know that many more of us straights, gays, religion followers and non-followers, who would put more emphasis in the idea of quality of life = live in peace, than who's right and who's wrong.
Men are consumed with lustful passion because of their nature as men, not because of their sexual preference. And lustful passion can be sinful regardless of sexual preference.
I'd say it is child abuse.