it's unfathomable to me that there are people who get behind any war yet whine about tiny percentages of our military expenditure being put toward science and exploration. one only has to look around to see everything we take for granted from home to work and back represents scientific discovery and invention and if not for science and exploration those of us who live in the United States wouldn't be. we'd be sitting in the old country still steeped in the belief the world is flat and if we sail far enough and are lucky enough to not be eaten by giant serpents we'll fall off the edge of the Earth. and frankly conservatives have no place telling anyone about the economy after filibustering every jobs bill they had the option to allow to the floor of Congress for a vote.
Who gives a shit where the money gets spent? It's still getting spent regardless, and as a result, no matter where the money spending falls, our economy is still in a big fucking shithole.
That being said, NASA's achievement of the Curiosity landing is incredible. It'll be a huge step in science and space exploration as well as engineering, and depending on what is found, that may translate into what future generations start learning in school. I'd say the positives far outweigh the negatives here. But our economy is still shit, so...idkmybffjill
@GodlessLiberal - hmmm. It was accessible earlier in public. That stinks. The study deduced that drunk people have more conservative views while drunk, requiring less thought process. The same was found among many conservatives.
All the money spent on welfare, social spending in general, and foreign aid to countries that hate us and the end result is a progressively worse economy. Better to cut social spending and invest the money into things which produce tangible results.
@StupidSystemus - Or, it might be more accurate to say that when people are drunk they have less inhabitions so their true opinions come out more. Anyways, I'm not impressed with the thought process of liberals, which seems to be based more on regurgitating the talking points of liberal politicians rather than independant reflection.
@TheSutraDude - Where do you get off saying that conservatives are anti-science? You will find a lot more proponents of the space program on the right than on the left. It was your man Obama who canceled the Constellation program, which would have been the greatest human endeavor in recorded history, and more of a leap forward in science and exploration than the discover of the New World.
Anti-science conservatives vehemently defend the Mars landing because they can latch onto it as a sign of American exceptionalism. That being said, it's difficult to calculate what the "value" or "return" on the landing will be to the American people. The most direct value of previous space exploration missions has been the technology they produced, which have bettered everything from medicine to air plane travel.
Alright, so, these are the things that have been accomplished by Obama or the federal government since Bush left office: (1) stabilized the economy; (2) killed Bin Laden (which most conservatives would have heralded as an affirmation of Bush's presidency in and of itself had it happened under his watch); (3) health care reform; (4) the mars landing; (5) completely reconstructed the student loan system (demonstrably better than what it once was); (6) legalized and promoted stem cell research; (7) created regulations that allow EPA to issue climate change rules; (8) passed a stimulus package that is unprecedented in the last 100 years; etc. This has all occurred despite having the most obstructionist Congress in the history of American politics.
Obviously, conservatives don't like Obama or his agenda, but I find the reticent liberals who pretend Obama is some kind of lame duck or presidential dud to be pretty puzzling at this point. What he has managed to accomplish under the circumstances is pretty impressive. Regardless, everyone who objectively looks at what he's done should be able to agree that he has done more in 4 years than Bush accomplished in 8 (whether you find what he has done good or bad is another question).
@Ambrosius_Augustus_Rex - Because the vast majority of climate change deniers, anti-evolutionists, vaccine conspiracists, old Earth deniers, moon-landing deniers, flat earth proponents, and general skeptics of the modern scientific method are right-wing conservatives. This really isn't surprising because many right-wing Christians view modern science as a direct threat to their religious world view (hence, their hatred of metaphysical naturalism, a foundational pillar of modern science). For example, you don't see xangans like Soccerdadforlife or (the late) Interstellarmachine on the left. They just don't exist.
Liberals generally don't deny the benefits (or existence) of space exploration, as conservatives deny the scientific evidence on any number of issues. Liberals simply tend to think that in today's economy, space exploration shouldn't be as high a priority as it has been.
I generally don't dispute the value of space exploration. What we lost sight of among the news headlines is that we already found life on Mars. We found a meteorite from Mars in Antarctica about ten years ago that contains fossil microbes. Case closed.
@UTRow1 - First of all, I don't see what basis you have for calling us "anti-science" when we are the only ones who support government spending on scientific endeavors. By that I am of course talking about military tech and space exploration, which are two fields that you liberals are always wanting to axe in favor of social spending, which produces a good deal of debt and no tangible fruits. As a conservative I disagree sharply that the primary reason behind wanting to see science progress is for American exceptionalism, although even if it were I see nothing wrong with that. If it produces good results then it's a good thing, regardless of the motivations behind it. That being said, I could say in return that the primary reason why the left hates space exploration is because they hate the idea of American exceptionalism. It's not hard to find plenty of speakers on the left who openly admit to hating America and want to see it fail. Similarly, I believe that many of the policies of the left wing politicians are to drag the US down to the level of less advanced countries in order to 'level the playing' field as it were. The left has a long and grisly history of punishing achievment.
Here are some very direct benifits will come out of space missions of things are done properly: Better computers, better sensors, better means of propulsion, finding and/or creating new places to live, harvesting new resources, and last but not least, knowing more about the universe.
I agree with you part way, he has done more damage in 4 years than Bush has in 8. For example, Obama's NDAA is a good deal more draconian than the much criticized Patriot Act which Bush passed. In any case, they were both terrible presidents. Bush was a neo-con who undermined the Republican party while eroding American freedoms on the homefront, and Obama has continued all of the worst Bush ideas and added other calamities to them. We have Obungle to thank for quadrupeling the national debt, and I hold his economic policies to blame for my not being able to get a job in my field. Even though I have been through college twice, have a 4.0 average, academic honors EACH year, and positive professional reccomendation letters from previous employers and university professors. It's bunk to say Obama has done any good for the economy. He has most likely put us into a permanent rut.
Also, it is dubious whether or not Obungle killed Bin Laden, or whether or not Bin Laden was even killed. We have nothing to go on for that but his word. Normally I don't care for Bollywood, but there is a humorous movie that came out about a scenario like that when Bush was president. They were joking about staging a fake killing of Bin Laden so that the US could sell it as a victory and go home, and at the time I thought "this is so stupid, no one would ever believe that, and it would never work." Then out comes the news that Bin Laden was supposedly killed, but the body was conveniently dumped in the ocean (why?), there are no photos, and of course no video footage. What rubbish is that? Showing the footage or at least the body would have been great PR for Obama if he and his people actually had anything to do with it. I would have shown them if I were president, and it would have guaranteed my reelection. We can find videos and photos of Saddam being excecuted, and he was not as much of an enemy for us as Bin Laden.
As for the Mars probe curiosity. What is your basis for giving credit to Obama for that other than the fact that he was occupying the white house at the time. Was he part of the planning team? Did he order them to do that specifically? Even if he did that does not excuse him from cancelling the Constellation program, and because of that I will always associate him with a curse in my mind.
@UTRow1 - You cannot call us anti-science just for not sharing your belief that the universe is self existing. If you are going to that then you may as well call us anti-science for also denying Hinduism, or the belief that Gaia was boffed by Oronos. We do not have a problem with the scientific method, in fact it is partly because of the scientific method that we do not accept much of what evolutionists have to say regarding the origin of the universe. If you want to believe that the universe is eternal, or that it came from nothing completely on it's own then you are free to do so. I do not support forcing people to believe in anything, however, you know full well that along with that you have to accept other notions, such as the laws of physics not being constants. Actually it was Christians who founded every branch of modern science. Metaphysical naturalism is your a priori assumption, not ours, and the foundation of your belief system, not science. Science is restricted to empirical observable things, and your origin beliefs operate outside of what can be observed and tested. Evolutionism is nothing but a pseudo-scientific rehashing of pantheism, because you don't want to be held accountable for your actions by a higher being.