May 9, 2012
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Jesus was a Socialist (RP)
I’ve never understood how people can claim to be Christians who follow the New Testament, but have such amazingly Old Testament values. The group that fully embodies this mindset to me is the Moral Majority. Even as a Christian, I could never understood how you could read the words of Jesus and then go out and vote to not help the poor. Many justify this with the saying “God helps those who help themselves,” which is often falsely attributed to the Bible. When I was a Christian, I always figured the final word on any issue in which the Bible’s message might be in question should be settled by the words of Jesus, the man who is, supposedly, the most important person in the Christian religion. So what do we hear Jesus say about economics?
We can look at Mark 10, which says “21Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!” 24Thedisciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” “
I often hear from Christians, when discussing things like abstaining from homosexuality or premarital sex, that following the Bible isn’t mean to be easy. But I’m amazed at how rarely this verse comes up when the religious right discusses their faith. I can only assume because this faction of Christianity somehow combines Old Testament morality with a 1980s Wall Street “greed is good” mentality. Obviously these people seem to find Jesus’ teachings to be too difficult to follow, but the restrictions on homosexuality and sex outside of marriage are no problem to them (publicly at least… just look at Kent Hovind and his male prostitute or Newt Gingrich divorcing his wife on his death bed so he can move on to his third wife).
We know for certain that Jesus had no problem healing the sick free of charge (can you say socialized medicine?), as is evidenced in passages like Matthew 4:23 & 9:35. And let’s not forget that we are to “forgive our debtors” and “give to every one who begs from you.” Jesus even spoke on trickle-down economics nearly 2000 years before Republicans would start to promote the concept as an addendum to the New Testament, when he discussed the beggar Lazarus “who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table.” If you’re familiar with Jesus’ message at all (and not in a 700 Club kind of way) you probably know that Lazarus ended up in a better place than the rich man.
But I think the most convincing evidence of Jesus being more of a leftie hippie than a right-wing Reaganomics promoter comes from James 2: “1My brothers, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, don’t show favoritism. 2Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. 3If you show special attention to the man wearing fine clothes and say, “Here’s a good seat for you,” but say to the poor man, “You stand there” or “Sit on the floor by my feet,” 4have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts? 5Listen,my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love him? 6But you have insulted the poor. Is it not the rich who are exploiting you? Are they not the ones who are dragging you into court? 7Are they not the ones who are slandering the noble name of him to whom you belong? “
None of this makes Jesus seem like the supply-side, laissez-faire, capitalist, “let the market take care of it” fiscal conservative the modern GOP likes to paint him as. I think if Jesus were around today, he’d shrink away from these people that love to jump on the six Bible passages about homosexuality and ignore the hundreds on how to treat the poor.
Comments (23)
I don’t care what liberals say, there are many lazy people who would rather get free government handouts than work. Does Jesus want us to support these lazy people? No. The bible says if a man is lazy and doesn’t work, then let him not eat. However, yes we should help those that are truly in need. How? I’m not sure what the perfect answer is. I’m not smart enough to give the perfect solution that will make both Democrats and Republicans happy.
CHE JESUS
@musterion99 - I’m much more concerned with the corporations and multi multi millionaires that want bailouts and welfare and to shirk their responsibility. They affect me far more than someone on food stamps claiming an extra kid.
@GodlessLiberal - I think it’s more complicated than to say corporations and millionaires, who are already paying taxes and helping the economy by providing jobs, should be the ones responsible for helping the poor. And again, why should they help those that are lazy? As I said, I’m not smart enough to provide the perfect solution that will satisfy both sides.
@musterion99 - The problem is the left won’t acknowledge that there are lazy people in this world that dominate the food stamp and welfare system because they are the ones that keep getting them elected. They are just selling their vote to these people. The truth is, big corporations and millionaires are responsible for most of the philantropy in this nation. Besides, it’s not the government’s responsibility to be kind, compassionate or giving, it’s the government’s job to follow the constitution. Robbing from the rich to line your pockets and tossing a few pennies to the poor isn’t doing what Jesus taught, it’s manipulating his words to mandate thievery.
I love that quote.
I don’t feel that Jesus said those things about the economy, he said them to each individual. This, however, includes each individual who is in office, each individual who votes, each individual who becomes president. Everyone should be incorporating this idea into their daily lives. It IS hard to follow. Lots of times I fall short because I say to myself “what if I need this later? What if this person uses it for something I didn’t intend? What if they’re lying about their life conditions? What if, what if, what if?” It is true that I’ve gotten screwed over sometimes, and lied to. That hurts. However, I’ve also gotten the chance to help people when they were very down. Something changes in a person when they see another individual (not a government, because although that is helpful, it is too impersonal for the change to happen) giving them something with no need for repayment. It changes the way they think, how they see the world, see people. I’ve been changed. Jesus taught these ideas because it is super important for us to learn to do things for each other. It’s super important to see other people in a way that shouts equality and respect and that each person has worth, not because they’ve proven that they’re worth something, but because they’re a human being. A person discovers their own worth when treated as such.
Therefore, I don’t think that Jesus was speaking about economies when he taught those things, because he did not seem to approach people on a national level, he instead seemed concerned in most of his teachings with people on an individual level. (Please feel free to counter this. I’d like the discussion.)
Selective reading of the Bible
“If a man will not work, he shall not eat.” 2 Thessalonians 3:10
It is better to have a view of the whole Bible in context instead of taking a few passages to indicate that Jesus taught a big government solution.
say what they want. conservatives worship Ayn Rand. Jesus Christ is just cover. two weeks ago i watched an interview with a high positioned Catholic nun. she ripped “Catholic” Paul Ryan a new asshole….not that she’d put it that way.
@TheTheologiansCafe - the poor do work, often two and three jobs. i remember a man on the street in the 90s. he was asked about the economic boom and the number of jobs created. his answer was, “I know about the number of jobs. i’ve got three of them”. he wasn’t wearing an Armani suit and Ferragamo shoes. trust me on that.
Jesus never took away from one man’s table to feed another. So no, I’d argue that Jesus wasn’t a socialist. And though he did tell one rich man to sell all he had and give it to the poor, he did so because he knew for that man in particular, he worshiped money above all else. He placed his wealth above God. And since it was his idol, he would not be able to do what Christ asked. Hence, we was not going to be able to go to heaven. Are all rich men like him? I don’t think so. Many of them are responsible for the vast majority of philanthropy that happens in this country.
Now, do we do enough for the poor? I’d say no. We Christians needs to be doing more. But government socialism isn’t the answer. Neither is giving bailouts to corporations.
@TheTheologiansCafe - Oh, as in “Jesus’ 2nd letter to the Thessalonians”?
You are the one selectively quoting, Dan.
It is christians’ responses to arguments like this that make me wonder whether the religious right is just god’s equivalent of a rickroll.
On a side note, a recent study by a UK thinktank concluded that religious people in this country are more likely to be leftwing, contrary to the impression given by the extremely vocal minority. So I feel happy to conclude that our believers are much better christians than yours. – http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/08/religious-people-more-likely-leftwing-demos
good point.
“We know for certain that Jesus had no problem healing the sick free of charge”
Uh hu. I’m not remembering the story where Jesus takes somebody else’s money at gunpoint to pay a doctor to “heal the sick for free.” You figure out how to heal the sick by commanding their diseases, then you can “heal the sick for free” the same way he did. Until then SOMEBODY pays for it. “Free.” Ha. Talk to any doctor, any medical provider, any pharmaceutical company, any pharmacy and they will tell you that all that “free” healing costs them dearly. But I guess actual facts are inconvenient for your “argument.”
You’re a pretty smart guy. It isn’t possible that you don’t understand this very simple concept: Jesus said you should help the poor with YOUR OWN RESOURCES. He never said you should get together in a group and “vote” to take by force somebody else’s resources to “help the poor.” Oh, and there’s this minor point that the VAST majority of “voting to help the poor” is actually people voting to help themselves. With somebody else’s stuff. There’s a word for that: stealing.
This entire argument is wholly about hiding behind the herd to claim moral superiority over people you don’t even know. There’s a word for that, too: cowardice.
First of all, welcome back. You bring interesting insights to this spot.
Secondly, I would like to address the Christianity side of your comments and skip the conservative vs progressive political side which seem to have fired up most of your commentators thus far:
I agree with you that the words ascribed to Jesus in the Gospels should and do carry greater weight than the words of “inspired” writers such as Paul, John, Peter, Jude, etc. Even as Paul himself suggested, I follow Christ Himself, historically by the Gospels and presently by His Spirit. I’m not a follower of any of the apostles. Christ is the center and focus of my faction.
I have posted here before that the Apostle Paul was a Pharisee in recovery, that his understanding of the will of God evolved during his lifetime as is normal in the process of progressive sanctification, and that his epistles which are chronologically later demonstrate his personal, spiritual maturation.
I have posted here before that Jesus Himself is THE Word of God and the best, more spiritually mature of His disciples look directly to Him for guidance. Those Christians who persist in the tradition of calling scriptures THE Word of God at best fall into the category which the Apostle Paul calls the “weaker brethren,”and at worst are among those who do NOT have the Spirit of God and are NOT really in Christ at all.
And, as I have suggested to you before, the wise course is to accept, receive and follow Jesus Himself even if it is sometimes necessary to reject the infantile babbling of many of the other believers.
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Jesus was definitely anti-labor. And he didn’t seem to distinguish servants from slaves.
Thank you for this post. Not really anything new being brought to the table, but it’s nice to see the point reiterated on occasion.
Interesting comments, those who belief EXCEPT they have reservations. The lost texts of Judaism and Christianity probably showed how Jesus could feed the multitudes with just a few loaves and fishes. First, he didn’t feed any lazy people. Secondly,he didn’t feed anyone who was getting help in the from the corporate philanthropy. And he didn’t feed anyone who was getting government assistance. He didn’t have to feed the rich cats, because they were rich enough to buy their own food. And he didn’t feed old Moishe Shimmel because there was something about Moishe Shimmel that just pissed Jesus off.
When Jesus excluded all that he could, the few remaining had more than enough food to eat. When modern day Christians get done telling us all the exceptions they would make, then they have left Jesus in the dust.
a socialist indeed.
OK, everyone who says Jesus’s message shouldn’t be about social change… are you going to stop voting against people who vote entirely on their religions beliefs? The Tea Partiers of the world? Or are you just keep picking and choosing Jesus’ word, just like you claim I am doing?
@GodlessLiberal - They tend to ignore Jesus’ word. It’s the one bit of the bible they can’t quote-mine to justify their views.
@GodlessLiberal - i would bet that most of the “religious right” give more directly to those in need out of their own pockets annually than they have to pay in taxes. And considering that most social programs have about 80-85% administrative costs associated with the program (meaning only 15% of the tax dollars collected actually reach those who need it), they are much more giving than any social program ran by our government. Asking them to give more in taxes is just asking them to line the pockets of wealthy career politicians even more.
Your fooling yourself if you think more taxes would mean more people helped. Go find a homeless person and buy them a meal for $10. Then remember that for the governement to help that same person with a $10 meal, they would have to collect about $67 in taxes to do it. You could have fed almost 7 times the amount of people with that same amount of money. You need to target your anger at the lack of compassion towards the real problem. That problem is the lack of efficiency of our government.
Point out those flaws in the system if your heart really is for the poor, hungry and needy. Or you could just come right out and say that you are just grasping for ways to throw stones at Christians for no other reason than you simply don’t like the religion.