June 7, 2013
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If God Enforced the Commandments, We Wouldn’t Have Jesus
As you all know, if it wasn’t for each and every one of your ancestors being born, you wouldn’t exist. That’s pretty basic stuff. And if you’re a Christian, you likely know that Jesus is (supposedly) unique in the fact that by both bloodline, birthplace and abilities he fits the requirements for the Jewish messiah (Jews may disagree on this fact).
Now if we look at Matthew’s genealogy of Jesus, we see the name Tamar (Matthew 1:3). Let’s look at what the Bible tells us about Tamar:
15When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, “Come now, let me sleep with you.”
“And what will you give me to sleep with you?” she asked.
17 “I’ll send you a young goat from my flock,” he said.
“Will you give me something as a pledge until you send it?” she asked.
18 He said, “What pledge should I give you?”
“Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand,” she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him. – Genesis 38:15-18
Dude, he boned his daughter-in-law for the price of a goat and his family tree. I wonder how that compares to the price on the street corners. Anyone know the conversion rate to American dollars? I’ve tried offering a goat, but they never take it. Apparently modern prostitution does not run on the barter system.
Sorry honey, but that’ll cost at least a fatted calf. Throw in a suckling goat and things can get freaky.
If I recall, God has some harsh punishments for adulterers. In fact, one of his 613 commandments is for just this situation:
12 “‘If a man has sexual relations with his daughter-in-law, both of them are to be put to death. What they have done is a perversion; their blood will be on their own heads. – Leviticus 20:12
So there you have it. If it wasn’t for interfamily prostitution, Christians wouldn’t have a messiah. Just something to chew on.
Comments (17)
We don’t live in a perfect world. We live in a sinful world and whether you like it or not, God’s will is sovereign. He is able to use sinful situations for good as he sees fit. He does this a lot. Moses, David, and Paul were murderers. But God’s will in his wisdom and knowledge is able to trump those situations. I already know your response. The same as every other atheist that faces the sovereignty of God. They’re smarter than God and know better than he does and they judge his decisions.
@musterion99 - I don’t pretend to know better than God. I just wonder why God would give us our own moral code separate from his. I also wonder if, HYPOTHETICALLY, God were to declare something detestable (genocide, rape, etc) to be his will (it’s not like he hasn’t done that in the old testament)… would you do it? If for whatever reason God decided that something you don’t like is his will… you must leave your hetero life mate, and find a same-sex partner… would you? Obviously your moral compass says something on its own, even before you read the Bible. So if God told you “hey, those people with dark skin are your enemies” would you agree?
I love it. Thanks for the chuckle. And the rational thought behind it. If people approached the Bible rationally, they would realize how irrational it is, how inconsistent it is, and even how hypocritical it is.
I love your “dialogue” with the picture. That is rich. LOL
@GodlessLiberal -God is sovereign. I try my best to do whatever his will for my life is. He ordered genocide as judgment against extremely evil societies. Your hypotheticals are meaningless to me because God hasn’t asked me to do that. I don’t live by hypotheticals. If I was living in the O.T. time when God ordered genocide, I would hope that I would have been obedient.
@musterion99 - And I just don’t understand that. For the life of me, I can’t figure out why Abraham didn’t say “what? Of course I’m not killing my son!” and converted to paganism or worshiping Baal or whatever else was going on around him. Plus I’m sure killing your kid because god told you went over about as well back then as it does now.
@GodlessLiberal - We don’t know if Abraham had those thoughts or not. Not every single thing is recorded in the bible. Maybe he did struggle with it. But his relationship with God was very unique. God promised him a son well after the child bearing age for him and Sarah. When God delivered on his promise, I’m sure that strengthened Abraham’s faith. So when God then asked him to sacrifice Isaac, even though he may not of understood why, he knew God was sovereign and trusted him. For you as an atheist, I understand why you have a hard time believing these things. Before I was a Christian, my beliefs were totally different also.
Why do we teach that dinosaurs are extinct when so many still exist in Congress?
Sorry. I just felt compelled to ask that.
I had to cut down a dead tree last week. Today, I’ve got to remove the stump. I don’t plan to discuss religion, or science, or politics, or art with the stump.
That incident between Judah and his daughter-in-law happened in Genesis way before Levitical/Mosaic law and penalties existed. Brother-in-law marriage was a custom/principle among the early patriarchal societies. It later on became part of the law when written.
The actions and maneuvers she took to keep in line with that custom, keeping the lineage leading to the messiah within the family later to become the nation of Israel, made her more righteous than him for procrastinating to give her a male heir since his sons failed to do this.
What could be more absurd than a Godless liberal preaching to us about Jesus?
I say stick with the dinosaurs and learn how to go extinct quietly.
@GodlessLiberal - There are likely hypotheticals like what would Jews do if they knew a holocaust would be coming. Of course some Jewish folks could answer that since they are the Chosen people maybe they have more of a right to be in Israel.
Who did the children of Adam and Eve marry? That scenario is also left fuzzy but yeah they must have been inbred because if Adam and Eve were the first people on earth, there wouldn’t be wives for the first son Cain.
Of course the chinese will never be good Jews or Islamists if they don’t give up eating pork. Christians could separate Islamists and Jews from among themselves by seeing who will eat Pork.
@ImNotUglyIJustNeedLove - Another ad hominem attack – and this time, you included a curse (“I say stick with the dinosaurs and learn how to go extinct quietly”). What was your definition of a troll again?
What you refer to as “absurd” doesn’t change the truth of Krisko’s report. Those events involving Judah and his daughter-in-law are in fact recorded in the Bible and Matthew’s genealogy of Jesus establishes Jesus as a descendant of an adulterer and his daughter-in-law, who prostituted herself for the price of a goat.
Denigrations of factual information do not successfully nullify that information or cast doubt on the credibility of the reporter, regardless of that reporter’s idealogical or religious beliefs.. That is the weakness of ad-hominem attacks in general – they convey insult only, not logical argument.
Your post offers nothing quantitative to counter his report. You offer only insult and derision.
@AlanMintaka - Some folks never learn from their mistake and every so often they often claim they are persecuted. Unfortunately this particular blog had 100 views and it looks like the trolling session is over even though there was a bit of nice back and forth between GL and M. Thanks for your reply and too bad xanga 1.0 is ending. Long live xanga 2.0.
@PPhilip - ”Thanks for your reply and too bad xanga 1.0 is ending. Long live xanga 2.0.”
You’re more than welcome, but I don’t understand what you mean by “too bad xanga 1.0 is ending. Long live xanga 2.0.”
I confess that I haven’t paid any attention to the status of Xanga beyond this particular blog. Is something up?
@bluepillorredpill - You are referring to “relative morality” – what was right then and there is not right here and now. The same argument could be used to justify Hitler’s agenda in Germany and Hirohito’s agenda in East Asia in the first half of the 20th century. What they did was right then and there. Same argument, same logic.
Besides, what difference do time and location make to a God who is omnipresent in both space and time?.
Far be it from me to point out a flaw in your analysis here, but the account you give about Judah predates the issuance of the 10 commandments or of any law God may have handed down to the Israelites. Therefore, due to the absence of law, it was perfectly legal for Judah to have sex with his hussie daughter-in-law.
Sorry dude, try again.
- FAIL -
@bluepillorredpill - @McScarry - A fair enough point, but look at the pre-Exodus 34 Bible. In Genesis 4, God punishes Cain for killing Abel. In Genesis 6:11, God
disapproves of the human race on account of its violence. In Genesis 12
and 20, non-Israelite nations have some notion that adultery is wrong,
and God punishes rulers when they are about to sleep unwittingly with
the wife of Abraham. Obviously God had no qualms with enforcing commandments before they were written down.
However, the main point here was pointing out that when someone talks about God’s anger at someone breaking a commandment (mostly when discussing gays), sometimes they need perspective as to how harmful that may actually be.
@GodlessLiberal - I agree that there is some great immoral material in the old testament to bash the gay-bashers. I also got a warm smile at your pre-Exodus 34 arguments. If anything, what I’ve learned from the Bible is that, if God existed on earth as he exists in the bible, human society would stop at nothing to lock him up in a prison or a mental ward.
That said, we can’t apply mosaic code to the immediate sons of Jacob/Isreal. If we did, we would violate one of the founding principals of law: creating laws and applying them to the past.
I will, however, add one more piece of evidence to support your argument: Sodom and Gomorrah and its destruction. Hopefully no one will notice that Lot commits incest with his daughters in a cave after that episode…